Directed by Zhang Young-Pan / 張永攀作品

郭凌峰

Languages:
中文 /// English
Translator: Brian Hioe

因緣際會下認識了現在人在香港浸會大學讀電影的導演張永攀，之前，他跟拍過一些紀錄片，後來在茉莉花事件時被抓進看守所關了一個多月，在這段監獄時光中，他想了許多事情，並決定以電影讓世界了解中國的現在與未來，而正在香港求學的他，下一部片子的主題將會是非常值得關注的「佔領中環」。

This interview came about because of the karma of being acquainted with Zhang Young-Pan, who studies film at Hong Kong Baptist University. In the past, he filmed documentaries, but after the “Jasmine Revolution” incident in 2011 in cities across China, he was held in detention for approximately a month.  During his time in prison, he thought about a lot of things, and decided to use film as a way to allow the world to know China’s present and future. As he is currently studying in Hong Kong, his next film will concern Occupy Central.

很高興有這個機會先介紹他的三個短片給台灣的觀眾，雖然這三部片大致是在談香港，不過和台灣也息息相關，此系列會有三篇配合影片的短訪，分別探討永攀的三部作品「誘餌」、「太陽是顆紅五星」與「狗人」，敬請期待！

I’m very to have this opportunity to introduce a series of three short films to Taiwanese audiences. Although these three films are about Hong Kong, as the situation of Taiwan and Hong Kong is closely connected, they may be of interest to Taiwanese viewers and others concerned with Taiwan. These three films are “Bait,” “The Sun is a Red Star,” and “Dog Person.”  Accompanying each of these films will be a short interview with the director, please look forward!

郭凌峰：首先要麻煩你介紹一下「誘餌」這個作品

Terry Guo: First, can you introduce this present work, “Bait”?

張永攀：我的作品都很關注政治，關注人在某種制度下的狀態。《誘餌》是我對現在香港高層作出批判的一部作品，這樣的作品在自由的香港還是很少的。有人批評我的作品過於嚴肅，但我在沒找到自己的成熟風格之前，還是會繼續這種帶有深刻思考的批判性敘述，我認為某種程度上這種批判還是很可貴和特別的。

Zhang Young-pan: My work is very concerned with politics, and the situation of people under different political systems. “Bait” is my criticism of the high-level government officials of Hong Kong. In “free” Hong Kong, there are still very few of these kinds of works. There are some who criticize my works as being overly serious, but before discovering my mature style, I will still continue with this kind of work that can be a narrative which provokes critical thinking. I believe this kind of criticality is still valuable and special.

《誘餌》其實是我不太滿意的作品，最初的想法到最後做出了很多改變，在製作上也出現了一些問題。但可以算作是我第一個按照正規電影流程操作的作品，僅製作計劃書就有幾十頁。我從這個作品的拍攝當中學到了很多，尤其是劇本的寫作和如何指導演員，還有故事以及故事中的人始終是最重要的因素之一。

The truth is, I’m not too satisfied with the work, “Bait,” my early concept eventually changed, and some problems emerged in the process of making the film. But I can count it as an achievement as having formally made a film, of which just for planning there were over ten pages of direction. From filming this will I learned a lot, especially the importance of script writing and directing actors, and that the story and the characters of those stories are the most important factors in the success of a film.

郭凌峰：你一開始怎麼接觸電影的？

TG: How did you first become interested in filmmaking?

張永攀：我小時候接觸電影還是村里來放映隊，在大街上搬凳子看大幕布的時候。後來的電影主要是在電視上看到的，看的也不多。直到我真正開始學電影才慢慢地多看一些電影。

ZYP: When I was small, I encountered the village projection team moving chairs and setting up the screen. Afterwards, the important factor that led to my interest in filmmaking was what I saw in movies. I saw quite a few, though I saw more films when I began studying film.

郭凌峰：我自己看完後覺得你的作品都緊扣「尊嚴」這個概念，可不可以和我們談談你對尊嚴的想法？

TG: When I finished watching your film, I felt the concept of “dignity” was important. Can you explain your thoughts regarding this?

張永攀：這個問題給我提供了一個特別的思考角度，我的每部作品都會考慮強力政治因素對人的影響。「尊嚴」作為一種對屈辱及壓迫的反抗，究竟在強權面前值不值得一提？「尊嚴」在利益和權力的誘惑面前，究竟有多大的抵抗力？一個一度失去「尊嚴」的正常人，在強大的國家機器面前，又會暴發出多大的力量？

ZYP: This question brings to mind a particular perspective of thinking. For each of my works, I emphasizing the political factors which impact people. “Dignity” is a protest against humiliation and oppression and asks the question–what is the importance of “dignity” in the face of power? Before the temptations of interest and power, what is the power of resistance that “dignity” offers?  Once a normal person has lost “dignity,” in confrontation with the large apparatus of a country, what will happens?

在某種意義上，「尊嚴」等同於人的概念。在專制國家機器的威脅下，做一個努力爭取「尊嚴」的人，還是營營役役、甘願奴役的「肉團」，甚或國家機器一顆「螺絲釘」，是每一個有思考能力的人都必須面臨的問題。

In some sense, “dignity” is equivalent to the concept of the “human.” In a country under the threat of autocracy, a person who strives for “dignity” will still succumb to the slavery of being a just a piece of meat or being a screw in the system, this is a problem that everyone with the capacity of reflection must face.

郭凌峰：現在你大部分的時間都在香港，你在香港感受到的氣氛是怎麼樣的？而你自己對香港的想法是什麼？

TG: As of late, you spend most of your time in Hong Kong.  How has the environment of Hong Kong affected you?  And what are your views towards Hong Kong?

張永攀：我來香港之前，對香港的自由充滿了嚮往，但隨著我對香港了解地越深，也發覺香港的自由越來越岌岌可危。現在的香港已經佈滿了赤紅色的斑點，而且越來越大，越來越密集。

ZYP: Before I came to Hong Kong, I felt Hong Kong was very free, but as I came to understand Hong Kong more deeply, I came to feel that the freedom of Hong Kong was in peril. The present Hong Kong is already covered in “red spots”, which are increasing in size, and getting bigger.

香港是我現在生活的地方，我肯定要想辦法捍衛她的自由，力所能及地為她多做一些事情。因為如果香港失去了自由，她將再也不是香港。

Hong Kong is the place where I live my life now, so I have to think of ways to defend her freedom, and do what I can within my abilities for her. Because if Hong Kong loses its freedom, it wouldn’t be Hong Kong anymore.

郭凌峰：可以談談你自己嗎？

TG: Can you discuss yourself a bit?

張永攀：我以前在大陸跟人拍過幾部紀錄片，後來因為“茉莉花事件”被以流行的“尋釁滋事”罪抓進看守所關了一個多月。在看守所的時候，我就在裡面很徹底地開始思考自己的人生，我覺得我自己過得很失敗，一片迷茫，白白經歷了那麼多的事情。所以，我覺得如果能出去就要去拍電影，把我的經歷、感受和體悟用電影講出來。我要敘述在我之前的英雄們所經歷的光榮與屈辱，要講述一個現實的中國，試圖讓世界理解現在和未來的中國。在我獲得自由之後，我就開始為寫電影劇本和出來學電影做準備。結果很幸運地，我進入了香港浸會大學電影學院。

ZYP: In the past in mainland China, I filmed some documentaries with other people, but after the “Jasmine Revolution” incident, I was arrested for “inciting trouble” and was detained for a month. When I was in jail, I began to contemplate my life very thoroughly. I felt my life up to that point had been a failure, a slate of confusion, and that I had experienced many things in vain. So I felt that if I could get out, I would have to make films using my experiences, feelings, and realizations to speak out. I would use narrative in my heroes experiences of glory and humiliation as a way to speak out in depicting the reality of China, in using film to let the world know of China’s present and future. When I got out of jail, I began to write a screenplay and left school to prepare filming. As a result, with luck, I got into Hong Kong Baptist University Film School.

郭凌峰：前一陣子你來台灣？這是你第幾次來台灣？可以硬逼迫你說出你感覺到台灣的三個缺點嗎？

TG: Did you come to Taiwan in the past before?  Or is this your first time to come to Taiwan?  And if you had to point to three shortcomings of Taiwan, what would you point to?

張永攀：迄今為止，我去過兩次台灣。第一次是去台北開會，停留的時間比較短，這次時間相對長一些，去的地方也比較多，了解的程度也深一些。

ZYP: To date, I’ve been to Taiwan twice.  The first time was to go to Taipei for a meeting, the time I had to stay was shorter, this time is longer, and I was able to go to more places and understand things more deeply.

如果硬要我說出三個台灣的缺點，我會說：一，可能是地理的原因，一般的台灣人都很難想的比較廣闊和長遠。就像曾到過大陸生活的花蓮導遊說的，他有一次看到大陸一張縣城的報紙上登廣告寫“一人一塊錢買非洲”，這讓他覺得很不可思議，台灣人很難有這種思維。我聽說台灣現在台灣對大陸的貿易依賴度已經將近一半，而且有不少大陸的財團來台灣買地。聽說花蓮市長做中介，一下子賣給「大陸首騙」陳光標 60 頃土地。包括「服貿」在內，這很明顯是中共政府利用經濟手段在控制台灣。台灣的政治高層真的這麼蠢看不出來嗎？台灣的民眾對此也沒有體會嗎？我覺得台灣的年輕人應該多出來走走，到廣闊的地方去生活一下，長期呆在富裕而狹小的台灣，看世界的思維也可能會比較狹隘。

If I were to point to three shortcomings of Taiwan, I would say: First, it might because of geography. The average Taiwanese has more difficulty thinking of things in the long-term and the in larger picture. Like a tour guide from Hualien who had lived in the mainland said to me that the first time he went to the mainland he saw a newspaper whose headline said, “One man, one RMB, can buy Africa,” which shocked him. Taiwanese people have a hard time comprehending something like that.

I’ve heard that Taiwanese trade is already dependent upon China by over fifty percent, and there are more than just a few mainland Chinese financial groups that come to Taiwan to buy land. I’ve also heard that in Hualien, the mayor has acted as an intermediary for selling 60 ares of land to Chinese business. Including the content of free trade, it becomes increasingly obvious that the Chinese government is using the economy to control Taiwan. Are the high-level officials of the Taiwanese government too stupid to notice this? Do the Taiwanese people have experience with this kind of problem?

I feel Taiwanese young people should travel more and have broader experiences living in different places, in the long-term, otherwise their ability for reflecting upon these problems will be too narrow. 

二，文化過於娛樂化。這種現象可能也有幾方面的原因，一方面的原因是有些媒體集團已經被親中資本控制，另一方面的原因則需要台灣人自己反思：是喜歡沉迷於娛樂中，還是故意不想看到真實的社會現實？抑或習慣了安逸的生活，喪失了改變的動力和勇氣？三，這個等我下次去台灣再詳細說吧。

Second, culture has become entertainment only. This kind of phenomenon has several causes: the first is that some media groups are already controlled by Chinese capital. The other is something that Taiwanese people need to reflect upon: under the condition in which people are obsessed with entertainment, are they unwilling to confront the present reality? Whether through forceful suppression or becoming used to an easy life, people will lose the ability to change as well as their courage to change.

As for the third shortcoming, let me think about it in more detail the next time I go to Taiwan.