Brian Hioe9/27星期六，破土的記者Brian在「全球聲援香港爭取真普選 」 在時代廣場舉辦，為香港祈福的現場碰到中國維權律師陳光誠，我們在9/29的每日破土特別號中記錄下這段訪問，呼應一連串聲援香港的活動。
逐字稿：Yeh Jiunn Tyng, Chun Yi Kuo
On Saturday, September 27th, New Bloom’s Brian Hioe caught up with noted Chinese dissident Chen Guangcheng at a solidarity action for Hong Kong in Times Square, New York City, organized by 全球聲援香港爭取真普選 United for Democracy: Global Solidarity with Hong Kong.
We present their conversation here as a special Daily Bloom for September 29th, 2014, in connection with the current series of events transpiring in Hong Kong.
English Translation: Brian Hioe
Photo Credit: 观察者
#1
你為什麼想要參加今日的行動？
陳光誠：我覺得今天的行動是香港一個非常關鍵的時刻。這不僅僅是說香港人一定要得到民主，如果香港再不站出來爭取自己的民主權利，原本有的言論自由也會失去。這是非常清楚的表現，所以我以前在臺灣就曾經說過，說過這樣一句話『如果香港臺灣不把民主法治帶到北京，那麼北京就會把專制推向這兩個地方』
我覺得現在香港這種作法，是非常非常正確的。
爭取自己真正的選舉，是每一個人都需要的權利，只不過是從香港開始的。
那當然大陸也有很多民眾開始覺醒，我覺得現在這是一個發展趨勢。
Why did you participate in the protest today?
Chen Guangcheng: I felt that now was very important time for Hong Kong. Not only is now when Hong Kong people must attain democracy, if Hong Kong doesn’t stand up now for its democratic rights, the freedom is already has will be lost. This is very clear, so like I said once before in Taiwan, “If Hong Kong and Taiwan don’t bring democracy and the rule of law to Beijing, then Beijing’s autocracy will be forced upon these two places.”
What the Hong Kong people are doing now is very much right. Demanding one’s right to genuine election is the responsibility of every person, although here it begins with Hong Kong.
It is also that the people of mainland China need to be awakened, and I think the present is the development of a trend.
#2
所以你覺得各個國家舉辦這個活動支持香港是很重要的嗎？
陳光誠：我覺得這樣的事情根據我的信息很多美國本地的人都在看著香港，都在爭取對香港各種形式的支持，這點我之前就跟很多朋友談到。我相信隨著時間的推移，隨著香港人爭取的更多，我相信會有更多的人透過各種形式支持香港。
So you think that it is important for people to organize this kind of activity to support Hong Kong is important?
Chen Guangcheng: From what I know, and as I’ve discussed with many of my friends, many people in America are watching Hong Kong and taking up different means of supporting Hong Kong. I believe that with the passage of time, as Hong Kong people continue to fight, more and more people will take up different means to support them.
#3
所以你覺得香港最終目的是什麼？
陳光誠：我覺得香港的一個目的很簡單，就是得到真正的選舉權，成為一個公民，而不是泛公民。現在不是民主啊是不是？有一些自由、有一些言論自由。我們看到如果爭取不到民主權利，言論自由也會逐步的被控制。就像現在臺灣的媒體已經被中共控制了，那麼臺灣也一樣。這種民主和專制的鬥爭，就是逆水行舟，不進則退。不可能說你不爭取，這些就夠了。
What do you think the ultimate goal for Hong Kong to aim at is?
Chen Guangcheng: I feel that Hong Kong’s ultimate aim is simple, it is to attain genuine elections, and for Hong Kongers to become citizens rather than “pseudo-citizens.” The present is not democratic, no? There are some aspects which are free, and are some aspects which are unfree. We see that if people do not fight for their democratic rights, they will gradually lose their freedom of speech. The same way Taiwan’s media is already controlled by Chinese business.
This kind of struggle against authoritarianism is always pushing against the flow, but pushing nonetheless. It won’t do to say that you won’t fight, that the present is enough.
#4
你覺得現在香港和臺灣的發展會影響中國嗎？
陳光誠：當然啊！直接影響到中國，這幾年香港對中國大陸維權人士爭取自己公民權利的支持，實際上是提高非常非常多。我覺得香港人有時候自己都不能體會到，因為中共不會讓你體會到，但是我們很清楚。
Do you think that if democracy is established in Hong Kong and Taiwan, it will effect mainland China?
Chen Guangcheng: Of course! It will directly affect China, the support of Hong Kong for Chinese activists fighting for civil rights has had increasing effect. I feel that sometimes Hong Kongers don’t appreciate the effect of their actions, because the Chinese Communist Party keeps them unaware, but this is apparent to us.